SEO Testing and AI SEO with Kyle Roof
Learn everything about SEO testing and AI SEO with the best on page SEO expert and entrepreneur Kyle Roof, owner of Page Optimizer Pro, High Voltage SEO Agency, Internet Marketing Gold and many other ventures. Explore the topics of SEO testing with someone with more 800 tests in his portfolio!
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-Hello, hello everybody. This is Yanis Divramis from divramis.com and today we have Kyle Roof. Hi Kyle, directly from Chiang Mai, Thailand.
-Yeah, well today I’m in Bangkok. I’m on the road.
-Okay, you’re in Bangkok. But usually Chiang Mai, that’s right.
– On the road to Chiang Mai, where I will meet again Kyle Roof on the Chiang Mai SEO Conference for 2025. It will be in a month, I think, 10 to 14.Yeah, just about. A little under a month, yeah.
– Okay. And thank you, Kyle, for being with us today. And this is the first time I think you’re coming to our channel and in a Greek SEO channel because it will be translated in Greek and transcripted in Greek. Okay. The first question is, who is Kyle Roof?
– I don’t know. I’m 46 years old and I’m still not sure. I’m an SEO. I’ve been a full-time SEO for about 13 years. I started an agency called High Voltage SEO and out of that agency, I was able to spin off companies like IMG Courses, which is a courses platform where also I do my testing and then also Page Optimizer Pro, which is my on-page software.
-Nice. So instead of I introduce you, you introduce yourself, but I will add something to add. Kyle Roof is famous for his SEO testing. Is that correct?
-Yeah, I think that’s probably what I’m most famous for. And how many tests have you done till now from the start? I don’t really know. In the marketing we say 400 plus tests, but I think we’ve been saying that for the last five years. I don’t know. I’ve conducted and I’ve been involved in probably at least double that 800 test plus. Okay.
-And how can you have an SEO agency and do all these tests? I think it’s time consuming. It is, but that’s what’s good about having a team. I sold my agency three years ago, but I think we had about 30 people working for us when I left. I was in a fortunate position where I wasn’t handling clients. That frees up a lot of your time. I was more the product side of things and being the base of the company. We were able to carve out time so I could do testing as well.
-Okay, so we don’t have so good screen. Yes, I think it’s better.
-And SEO testing has to do with a team. You need a team in order to do some SEO testing because alone it’s impossible or not possible, erode on your own for sure. You can do it. I mean, I did it all by myself, but you can definitely get more productive if you get it done.
-Okay. So are you still doing tests right now? Are you still testing new things?
-Yeah, absolutely. Right now we’re testing, we’re running a huge test on
-And how is the test going? How many domains will you test? What will be the assumption?
-Three sets of six. We’re running it on, I think, 18 different domains right now.
-Okay. And what is the assumption?
-What do you mean by saying the assumption? The assumption is that Google doesn’t have .coms, you know, agencies. But it’ll be interesting to see if maybe one index is faster. You know, or if actually you can manipulate, you know, using, you know, like a .lawyer, for example. You know, maybe you could accident.lawyer, you know, might be better than accidentlawyer.com, you know, that kind of a thing. So we’ll see what happens. Yes.
-So is it better to use a .lawyer or to use a .com?
-That’s exactly what we’re looking at. Okay. We haven’t finished the test. Initial results are looking pretty good for the .lawyers and the .agencies. Initial results. I don’t want to say anything too much because things do change. But initial results are looking pretty good. Okay, so it’s better to have a .lawyer than a .com? I would just say it’s not going to hurt you. It’s not going to handicap you in any way. You can be just as successful with a non-standard TLD.
-Okay. How about national domains? For instance, we are in Greece now and I run an SEO agency in Greece with Greek clients. Is it better to have a .gr domain or a .com or a .agency?
-If you’re targeting the region specifically, I would have the GOTLD. I would have the .GR. That does impact if you want to then try to start getting clients from the UK. That’s going to be difficult to do. In that case, I would go with a .com. especially if you’re doing international seo if you have the ability to run multiple domains that are targeted to specific regions i think that gives you an edge it just takes a lot more time and energy and resources because you’re now growing independent sites but i do think there is an advantage to region specific tlds if that’s your target market
-Okay, so it’s better to have regional TLDs and separate domains for every candidate, for instance?
-Yeah, I think you’ll do better in the SERPs. I think it’s better than… I mean, there are pros and cons. If you have one big site, you can pass juice to all your pages a lot better. Those separate sites are separate sites, and so they will need their own Jews and backlinks, so that could multiply cost. But I do think you get an initial ranking advantage by having the region-specific TLD.
-Okay. I have another question because I noticed something in the Greek search results, the Greek SERPs. It’s a guy that is called SEO.London.
-Okay. SEO.London. L0ndon.
-London, yeah. From London, UK, the capital of UK.
-Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
-Okay. And that’s showing up in your SERPs. And this guy had opened a subfolder, seo.london.gr, and he translated a big piece of his site in Greek, and now he’s mingling in the Greek search results. and if you for instance another greek word that is very common for seo in greek is a website promotion and if you if you press website promotion in greek then in the first page he’s also himself with –
maybe maybe this is what this is showing you that the uh the dot london the you know those uh unusual tlds maybe they give you the edge But I’m sure for that subfolder that he’s using hreflink to say that this page is the Greek page and it’s meant for the Greek audience. And that can definitely work.
-And I imagine his regular site, seo.london, I’m sure he’s got a lot of backlinks that just point to that automatically. So that’s going to give him a lot of juice.
-Exactly. It’s what you said before, that we’re running this test right now.
-And I think this test is for this time, because five years ago, it wasn’t a topic. It wasn’t a thing in the SEO community, but now it is.
-Yeah. A lot of new, unique TLDs have popped up in the last few years, giving you a lot of opportunity to go after smaller, shorter domains or more brandable domains than you could have before, for sure.
-So is it better to have a small website with big topical authority or more topical authority or a big one that has many cadres in a subfolder? What is better?
-Well, it would depend on the goals of the website, but typically larger sites do better than smaller sites. But I wouldn’t create categories just to make a bigger site. You want to make sure that it is directly related to your products or your services or the intention of the site. So what I would advise is cover the categories that are important to you as fully as you can. I wouldn’t necessarily just do one small site. I would try to make that site an authority in the one thing that it’s focused on. And that’s still going to make a pretty large site. You’re going to get a site with a couple hundred pages, no problem. If you’re posting content regularly and covering one particular topic or one particular category fully, it turns into a lot of content quickly.
-Right. And so another question that comes to my mind right now, because I have many, many questions from clients as well that I’m holding here.
-That’s great. So this is really for you.
-I’d like to run through my client list real quick. I have many questions from clients because I’m accepting phones from the clients because I’m running the SEO agency daily. So I have to speak with many of them. And one question is, I have a website, for instance, and it has 100 pages and the competition has 500 pages. If everything else is the same, we use in, because I study economics, in economics, the term ceteris paribus. It’s a Latin word. I think you know Latin. I got the party bus type part. Ceteirs Paribus means everything else standard. It remains the same. So everything the same. The only factor is the pages. 100 pages and 500 pages. Sure. Which is better?
-If all things are equal to 500 pages will likely be more powerful. Will be better than the 100 pages. For sure.
-So is that from a test? Have you done this test before?
-Yeah, I mean, it’s from the test and then just also being an SEO for a long time, but you’re going to have, let’s say, again, let’s say everything’s equal and all the pages have the same amount of power. Let’s say the power is 20, just as a random number. You have a site that only has 100 pages of 20 power and a site that’s got 500 pages of power. They can interlink better to push their pages up without the need for as many backlinks. The smaller site is going to need more backlinks in order to compete, and that’s going to make it more volatile in Google updates. It’s going to be more expensive. There’s going to be more risk involved, more of a guessing game. The larger site is going to be more stable evergreen growth won’t be as hit by Google updates. Just so many good advantages to that larger site. Again, in a situation where everything is equal. We’re just talking about the size of the site. Is it better to add more pages in a website? For instance, let’s say that I have a website that has 100 pages.
-Is it better to add more pages with good content, helpful content? And instead of doing some backlinks or going live, starting a YouTube channel or something like this?
-Well, um, the one thing you can control the most is what you put on your site. And so, uh, because of that, there is less risk involved and it’s usually more cost effective. So I would, I always start there. Then you might hit a point where you realize now I need backlinks to compete. A YouTube channel is a separate thing because that’s going to bring different type types of traffic. It’s good. It’s a different channel. Um, so. If your goal is, hey, maybe we need to educate our audience, then you maybe want to focus on YouTube. But if people are searching for this and there’s still opportunity to create content, then I would do that.
-Okay. And this brings to my mind another question that I have. Why Kyle Roof doesn’t have a YouTube channel?
-You know, we’ve tried a couple times and it never really took off, but I can be guests on shows like this and take advantage of the outreach that you’ve already done. And that’s become a much more successful way for me to grow. So, you know, I don’t really care if somebody’s got 10 subscribers or 10,000 subscribers. It’s been better for me and for our marketing for me to be a guest than to put in the effort to create my own channel.
-Yes, but I have done my research and I’ve searched about Matt Diggity and many, many other guys that are in Chiang Mai or was in Chiang Mai. And I think they’re in the same level of you. And everyone has a YouTube channel with 100k subscribers, 300k subscribers, especially the guy from Glasgow.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are a lot of, are you talking about Craig Campbell? Craig Campbell. He’s a guy. He’s not a check my guy. He is a friend of us, but yeah, no, I mean, it works for some people. I think I only have so much time in the day and this was just a better path and we’re sticking with it.
-Okay. So will Kyle Roof open a TikTok account in the future?
-Played with it uh we had one video that immediately got like 3 000 views and i was like oh this is great and then we did like 10 more and they all got like 10 views and i was like yeah this is just not worth my time so i’ll go on somebody else’s i’ll go on somebody else’s tik tok.
-Okay i’ve noticed the same thing when i was in crypto industry from some years I was doing a crypto video in TikTok for Bitcoin price and it took 17,000 views. And then the other day, how to get to the first page of Google? Three views. Me, my mother and my girlfriend.
-Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, there’s so much that goes into creating a successful channel. So much strategy. Like if you watch Matt Diggity’s videos, those are highly produced videos. Like he writes really good scripts. He has a really nice setup. He’s got a really great editing team. That takes a lot of effort. I mean, one video is a lot. Julian Goldie has been very successful. You know, his videos take a lot of time as he’s finding topics and he’s curating a channel and he’s been very, very successful at it. I mean, that’s just a lot of work and I have other work to do and other things I’m working on. And so for me, I think this is the right approach.
-Yes, but Julian Goldie had revealed that he had fired all his team, five people, and now his YouTube challenge, one-man show AI.
-That’s right. I’m interested to watch how that goes, if people still engage with it as AI or if it will kind of dwindle away. It’s a really interesting experiment. How about doing the same? We’re actually working on that because I’m tired of doing instruction videos and the team hates how long it takes me to do them. So we’re experimenting with we’ll see if AI Kyle comes out soon. It will be AI Kyle Roof. That’s right. Or kind of with AI, the sign on the top. I guess we’ll have to decide. Yeah, we’ll have to decide the styling. Yeah. But we’re experimenting with it to see if it’ll work, just for those small kind of instruction videos or kind of the marketing videos that explain how a feature works in the tool or something like that. Cause the problem with those things is like you create a feature like in your software and then a month later you have to tweak it. And now the video is old and you have to remake a whole video. If we could just do it through AI, that’d be so much faster and less time consuming for me.
-Yes, and now we’re talking about AI and the topic was AI from the first, but I think AI is a new thing and not many people, especially in the regional SEO market, what I mean regional, Chiangmai is like America, it’s the top market. The people that are living there, they’re working with America, United States, UK or Australia, the top tier markets. Here in Greece, because I’m not having so many clients from America, we’re a regional market. We have different algorithm. Google is completely different. It’s 20 years before.
-I don’t know that long, but yeah, you’re right.
-You’re right. I’ve noticed that many differences, especially right now, because I’m using Page Optimizer Pro the last months.
-Thank you.
-And you can find also an affiliate link because I’m an affiliate with Page Optimizer Pro and the video. And I’ve noticed many, many differences. How can AI affect the SEO right now, or how we do SEO right now, how will affect it? Because the average people cannot understand it. What I mean, I’ve seen many, many videos from you, from Julian, especially Julian, because Julian Goldie, he has a full course, a full group, and he’s 100% in AI. And I cannot understand how can I use it? I can’t understand it. Till now.
-Yeah, I don’t know. I haven’t seen all of Julian’s content. I just know he’s doing well. thing to understand about ai well first of all with like the loms is that it’s not ai there’s nothing ai about it it’s only their language models and they don’t know how to do seo at all um so if you ask it to do your seo it’s not going to be able to do it you as the expert have to be the one using the tool so it can speed up know how you do seo but if you’re bad at seo it’s going to help you do bad seo faster it’s not going to improve your seo you still have to be the expert that understands what the output should be so right now uh with with ai i’m not overly concerned about competitors that are bad at seo Because AI is not going to improve what they’re doing. It’s just going to speed up what they’re doing. So you still need to understand the why of SEO. You need to understand how to implement a strategy. And AI can give you some pointers, but when it comes down to actually doing SEO, the LLMs can’t do it. The AI content can’t get there. Yeah, our jobs are safe for at least a few more years because the models that they have currently can’t do what we do.
-Okay, so AI is just a tool and you need to be an SEO expert in order to use it.
-Yeah, I mean, you have to have SEO knowledge in order to get good SEO out of it. But I mean, it’s not just SEO. You see this in every industry, like all the lawyers that have like, posted stuff to court that’s fake, you know, fake cases, or, um, I just saw, um, massive marketing company, uh, advisor company, um, quoted fake books and when they’re making their decisions. So like, it’s not just SEO that has this problem. It’s every industry has this problem. It looks pretty, it looks nice, but you still have to have the experts reviewing, uh, what the content is and also then prompting it properly to get the right content or the right output. And you have to understand what you’re doing to be able to do that. You can’t just say like, give me this because it will give you terrible results.
-Okay. And the big question that everyone has, even not on my clients, because the client doesn’t know about AI now, about the use of AI, what they can do. They hear about it and they think that they will do a website with AI.
-Yeah. Good luck.
-Exactly. I was trying many, many tools and none can provide something that is a final product. That’s right. I studied marketing as well and in marketing we had the augmented product. What is the augmented? It’s final, I have checked it, it works and they come to get it again. Yeah. So will someday AI do the full job and provide a final product to the client?
-My guess would be that it would have to be done through the agents, AI agents. But that’s a multiple step process and not one agent can do all the steps. But even still, You remember when WordPress came out and there was the lie that everybody could have their own website now?
But as soon as you wanted to change more than the color, you were screwed because you weren’t a developer and it just created a whole new industry of front end developers. I think AI and LLMs are going to do the same thing. People are going to get halfway through a project and realize that they can’t finish the project and it’s going to create a new development kind of team or niche of like, help me finish my AI project.
Somebody that knows how to prompt properly, somebody that knows how to code properly, somebody that knows how to put it all together, I think it’s just going to create a new industry. So if you’re looking at breaking into an industry that doesn’t exist yet or is emerging, I think finishing AI projects is going to be just the same as people with their own WordPress sites.
-Like an SEO expert would be a prompt expert.
-Yeah, exactly. The kind of person that has some coding knowledge, some design knowledge, and prompt knowledge, and maybe kind of puts that all together into, then I can help you finish your AI project.
-Yeah, I hear many, many guys, and Julian as well, saying, steal this from YouTube. They do a YouTube channel live. Steal this prompt, and you’re going to make millions from Google. This is a secret formula of making 30K per month with this secret prompt. Something tells me not everybody’s going to be able to do that. Yeah, is it only a prompt matter in order to succeed in SEO, in AI SEO, in GDP SEO, or something else?
-No, it’s a knowledge matter as well. As we were just saying, you have to know what to ask for in the first place. And if you don’t know how to ask for it, or you don’t know what you’re asking for, then you’re never going to be able to get it.
-So you need to be like Socrates.
-I don’t know what I don’t know. That’s right. I don’t know what I don’t know.
-That’s exactly right. It’s another method that is called the Socrates method, the Socrates extraction method. When Socrates considered himself as a doctor, who was helping in order to give birth to a child. And this was his method. So we need to ask the right questions in order to find the right answers. That’s right. But you have to know what those questions are in the first place. Because if you don’t know how to even ask the question or what the question might be, then there’s no way for you to do it. Right. So let’s go to some other questions. I think it’s more specific about your job and your businesses. First question. It’s not my own also because I have many, many clients that are doing the same questions. And the reason I’m doing these videos It’s not only for promotion, but for education. Number one, it’s education because every day I’m facing clients’ questions that are 100% irrelevant with their goal.
Sure. I have this website and I want this logo to change in order to get ranked first. It’s not going to help much. It’s not going to help much. What I’ve noticed, I came and subscribed in IMG, Internet Marketing Gold. It was the fourth time I subscribed.
-Thank you for coming back.
Yes, this is a problem as well. You cannot understand what is all about, what are the benefits, what is the difference. If you are not an expert, you cannot discriminate, you cannot judge. And I thought it was like YouTube.
So why to pay? for Internet Marketing Gold. For some people that don’t know, Internet Marketing Gold is an SEO marketing AI academy that Calleroof has with co-partners. Is it correct?
That’s correct, yeah. Andy?
-That’s right. That’s right. With Andy. And we have a new member. His name is Tim. Tim Nichols.
-Andy, Tim, and Kyle.
-Yeah, that’s…
-Very nice for marketing. Okay. And I thought, why to pay $97? It’s 90 euros per month for this. Why? Is everything in YouTube? What is the difference?
-You know, it might be, but, um, YouTube doesn’t have an editorial process. You know, like the, the people that we bring in to teach the courses are ones that are actually doing SEO, you know, and they’re doing the work that they’re talking about. Um, and we vet the courses, um, so that the knowledge is current and informative and actually helpful. Uh, in YouTube, you’re just in a sea of misinformation and, uh, So the answers are probably also somewhere in YouTube, but the trick is finding it, I would say. Whereas we kind of fast forward that for you.
-Yeah. What I noticed as a difference, the first difference is that IMG goes directly to the point and the people that are doing the courses are not spice gap in order to bring more people. or to attract attention look this and do that and this the only thing you have to do and it’s not the proper knowledge that someone should look at for SEO and Actually, I found an offer, a hot offer. You were offering one year for the price of $397. It’s €370, yes?
-That’s right, yeah. That’s right. For one year, instead of paying $97 per month. Is it still in action? Is it still active?
-I think it’s going to come back for Black Friday. I don’t know. I’m not involved in those decisions. Okay. But I think they’re going to do something similar for Black Friday. So now it’s not open and we’ll have to wait for Black Friday in order to take it. But that’s coming soon. One month away. One month away. Okay. It will be Black Hat SEO Friday. Okay. That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Okay.
-And one thing more about Internet Marketing Gold is that it’s different than YouTube. You need to register. I have the link down in the script. And if you want to learn the real SEO, not the YouTube fanfares, It’s better to go there because you’re going to cut the process by 90%,
-I think. Yeah, I think so. And the other thing, too, is that there are a lot of different… levels of courses where if you’re like a beginner, you know, there are beginner level courses. If you’re intermediate, you can level up. If you’re advanced, there are a few advanced courses as well. So I think there’s a lot for everyone depending on what your current level is. And then also we cover a lot of different topics. I mean, there are like 55 courses in there. So it covers a lot of different, like different forms of link building, different forms of creating content. I think we have 10 courses about AI. different things about AI. So there’s a lot in there too. There’s a lot of variety.
-Yes, yes. I’m still studying the courses in the car when I’m driving in the gym. Eyes on the road. Keep your eyes on the road. And we have a new fine in Greece that if you use your phone, it’s 2,000 euros fine. It’s That adds to the $97 a month real quick. Yeah. Okay. So let’s go back to your businesses and your products. And let’s talk about Page Optimizer Pro. I found it. I’m using it, sorry, for the last three months. And I just enrolled it for the third time again.
-Okay. Maybe we have a communication problem here. If you’ve come back over the years, it’s changed a lot. Each time we update, we try to make it more user friendly. So hopefully you’re finding it easier to use this time around.
-And I found it very helpful because we have changed all the theory of on-page SEO, all the setup of on-page SEO that I had. And now we run all the websites and affiliate sites and landing pages and that stuff and backlink pages and blah, blah, blah, and parasite SEO. with Page Optimizer Pro in order to see what is the difference. Because I’m also running my own tests here and have many, many tests running because I have also my team and I’m trying to see what is the difference. If any difference in the SERPs will be any significant difference if I have a website that I wrote it on my own and then I’ll do some Page Optimizer Pro.
-Yeah. I think the best approach to writing content is to do an outline first. Write your title, write your subheadings, and then send that to your writer just to fill in and don’t worry about SEO. Then take that content and run it through a tool like Page Optimizer Pro, and then you should just be tweaking a little bit here and there. I think that’s the most productive way to do it. But most people are lazy. and they won’t outline. Remember when you were back in school, in elementary school and their teacher told you before you write, you need to do an outline and everybody ignored that advice. They do it now too. But if you can do an outline first and then fill in the outline, like with your content writer and then use a tool like Page Optimizer Pro, I think you’ll get the most out of it. And it’ll be the least amount of frustration. The only thing you might wanna do first with… With before like to get the outline because you can get the outline from pop as well, which is a good thing to do and maybe see how big the page should be. You know, are you looking at 1000 words are you looking at 3000 words, and so you can get that information, but then don’t worry about optimizing just give the outline to your writer and then come back and optimize from there, and I think that’ll be a good workflow.
-Yes. Actually, before I write something, I would like to see what is in the competition. So I have to do a benchmark analysis. Yeah. And I run the Page Optimizer Pro in order to see which are the competitors, what is the competition, how many words, et cetera, et cetera. And which is a topic, the LSI, the semantics, the relative keywords, blah, blah, blah. Then I start to write in order to have something because what I’ve noticed all these years, I have this channel and my agency website, my agency blog for 12 years. wrote more than 1,500 blogs and thousands of pages. It’s 8,000 pages. And I’ve noticed that some other guys from the competition had outranked me with a small blog spot with 1,000 words because they used AI, because they used Page Optimizer Pro. And my quality was excellent. I had also a video I had also the transcript. I had many, many things that come from life, from experience. And the other guy just says, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he’s first. No experience at all. And I thought, how come? Something else is more important than the personal experience for Google.
-Right. It’s the algorithm. You have to give it the math that it wants unfortunately. And because Google isn’t reading the content, it’s looking at the words, and it’s counting them, and it’s doing the math on them. And that’s how it decides what it thinks is best. So you could have, you know, the an article that has like the best life experience of anybody. But if somebody else’s math is better, they’re more likely to win.
-Exactly. That is, that’s exactly what I noticed now. Because in many, many things, I know more things about the something and have more experience and the competition attracts me with less content, no experience, no quality. And maybe it’s algorithmic or backlinks.
That’s right. There are other factors as well. But the step one to any kind of ranking is getting your on page correct. The better you do with that, the less you need of other things anyway. But step one is that content and it’s getting the term counts, you know, your important words, getting that done so that you can make sure that that’s great before you move on to other things.
Okay, so we’re seven minutes more late now. Do we have five minutes?
-I can, I can. Yeah, that’s fine.
-Okay. So the next question is, who is the target group of Page Optimizer Pro? Is it for everyone, for the client, or for the SEO experts, SEO community?
-Most of the people that use the tool are small to medium-sized agency is our biggest market, I’d say. We’ve always had a mission of providing enterprise-level data at not enterprise-level pricing so that the smaller guy can compete against the huge company. That’s kind of been our goal. As we become more mature, as we grow, we also wanna make SEO more accessible. to all people, so even people that don’t understand SEO as well. Because right now there is a learning curve with the tool. So we’ve actually created a done for you product where we will run the tool on your behalf so that you can get the most out of it. And we’re doing that so that we can then get to those people that don’t feel comfortable using a tool like Page Optimizer Pro, feel like they’re not getting the most out of it. So in addition to you can run the tool as much as you like and you can get your results, we have done-for-you products with account managers that’ll help you set up your strategy and execute that from a content side of things to kind of take the worry away. We have a lot of agencies that use that and then also a lot of small businesses that use it as well.
-Okay. How about the solopreneur?
-Yeah. Those guys like the done-for-you product because they don’t have the time to become an on-page expert, but they know they need a tool like this. And so the pricing is, again, our mission is to be as cost-effective as possible and provide as good a product as possible so that you can compete against those huge companies that have much larger budgets. And so for the solopreneur, the done for you, we call it white glove. It’s, I think, Our website slash pop white glove is the URL. But a lot of solopreneurs are using this because it allows them to compete and then they can focus on growing their business rather than becoming an on-page. Not many people have foolishly dedicated their lives to on-page SEO in the same way that I have. So it allows them to focus on those things that they’re actually good at with their business and then we can take care of their SEO for them.
-Yes, and another huge market is the do-it-yourself SEO guys.
-Yeah, yeah. A lot of smaller business guys. I have an issue and I didn’t myself because I was a graphic designer. But now I run a factory.
-Right, right, exactly. It happens with a small factory with five people and I thought I would do the website myself and I messed it up.
-Is this guy a new client for you, for Page Optimizer Pro?
-Yeah, that’s the perfect guy to come in and use the done for you. The done for you, not the Page Optimizer Pro by himself. It’s going to be hard. That guy’s got so much going on and so many plates are in the air. Let us take that one plate away for you and we can do it at a pretty fair price.
-Okay, so the price is, I think, I know the price is quite competitive for every market, even from the Indian market.
-Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. We do have Indian clients, which is pretty funny when you think about, even though they’re a very large country and they are growing, it’s a very price sensitive country as well. And we have several clients from India that feel comfortable in the price range.
-How about affiliate marketing SEO? Is the Page Optimizer Pro the best tool for writing content for an affiliate site or now it’s hard because of the Google updates?
-A lot of affiliates try to do en masse or they want to do mass page builders or programmatic SEO. If you are say doing programmatic SEO, you could use pop, say run like five to 10 pages and then get averages for your niche and then use that to create your template. I know a lot of affiliates that use pop for that. So they kind of figure out that 80, 20, like what they can do for their niche and then take that information and then plug that into something else to create mass pages or programmatic pages.
-Okay. And how about your other business that is the SEO agency? It’s the high voltage SEO agency, I think?
-I’m just on the board now of that. So I don’t participate in the day to day anymore of that. But if you’re looking for like a full service agency and somebody to handle it, they’ll do a pretty good job. -Okay. And are you serving the national market, every market, or one specific? National.
-So US, Europe, and Australia, primarily.
-Okay. And do you want to, if you need something to say, because we’re in the final questions now. you forgot something i think we covered it i think we covered it
-Um uh i would just say don’t be worried about ai um if you’re getting the foundational part of seo correct you’re gonna be okay and you can use ai to to to your advantage uh if you feel uncomfortable uh we still have ways to help you within our software with the page optimizer pro yeah and uh you know if you’re like man i would love to become an seo expert but i don’t think i can get there we can be that expert for you so come come check us out okay in order to cut time and expenses you need to use page optimizer pro if especially if you’re starting right now and you are in zero point white paper you know tabula rasa we say exactly you know seo is a game of it’s a game of probability you know you’re not going to be right 100 of the time but you can have tools can give you the best chance to be more right than your competitors and that’s what we’re that’s what we’re shooting for okay and how can someone find more about your call you back or text you back or send you a message yeah yeah um you know if you just go to pageoptimizer.pro um if uh if you hit the support button you can say hey this is a question for kyle and those get to me takes me about a day to respond but That will get to me. So go to pageoptimizer.pro and hit support if you’ve got a question.
-Okay. And about your website, coloroof.com, I think. There’s kyleroof.com.
-Yeah, you can go there and you can ask me a question as well. That actually might take longer to get to me than actually going through support, just FYI.
-It’s easier to find you in Greece, someone, in Athens.
-That’s right. Than to send you a message there. For sure. For sure. Okay. This was Kyle Roof, an SEO expert, SEO entrepreneur, SEO tester. Yes. And you can find Kyle Roof in Chiang Mai SEO Conference 2025. You will be speaking there, I think.
-That’s right. That’s right.
-And in many, many other events, I think we’re going to have you next year in Greece, I think.
-Yeah, I’ll come back. I’m definitely coming back. I had a great time. Yes. Thank you, Kyle Roof, for having you. And I will send you the videos in order to see them. And if you want to subscribe, just hit the button. And thank you, everyone, for watching.
-Bye-bye. Thanks so much.
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